New User Confused

[imdrax]

So im not new to tuning but definatley new to the BLUE. I have always used an AFC to tune on DSM's. I now am installing a BLUE on my IS300 along with a Supercharger. I have a couple quick questions.

1. Can the adjustment knobs on the outside be used just like an AFC to make adjustments?

2. In the picture below can you tell which options i have with the harness(injector?ingnition?etc...)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3920555315_9c1b0268e2_o.jpg

3. I have an LC1 wideband and am not sure whether or not it can be hooked up to log with the emanage?

4. How does the EMB deal with compensating fuel on a N/A car that has become boosted? I know it has a injector correction factor but that seems like it would work well for part throttle driveability but not for full throttle.

[Mrdb]

Looks like you have additional inj and ign wired up.

Inj is top left wires and ign is connector 2.

the dials on front can be used but are AFM/MAF only you really need the software to access the proper internal maps..

If the wideband has a 0-5v output you can attach this to the emanage, can use the second afm input or most common is the boost input ( yellow connector)

[imdrax]

Thanks for the reply. After reading the forum for a couple hours i think im getting close. Im still wondering whether or not the "DIY" cable will still work. I ordered one anyways from ebay and will give it a shot. How is the additional injector controlled using the emanage? Is there separate parameters for having the EMB control the extra injector only under boost loads? It seems like buying a boost adapter for the EMB would come in pretty handy for a boosted N/A car.

My thought process would now be that i can install the greddy boost sensor to the port and the EMB will make A/F adjustments based on not just RPM parameters but also Boost load?

I do have an additional injector installed just before the throttle body. Does the EMB have the capability to only use that injector when making correction factors under boost?

[Dzaster]

The EMB has the ability to alter fueling of your normal injectors(those mounted int he head per cylinder) as well as that additional injector you speak of before the throttle body. It has separate maps for both functions.

This particular map is the Sub Injector Map and would be the proper map to control the fueling of your injector before the throttle body.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/EMBMethTrigger.png


You are correct on the Greddy MAP sensor allowing for better tuning capability. IMHO it is essential when boosting a NA setup/motor. If you don't have the Greddy MAP sensor your options will be to tune off Throttle Position/stock airflow sensor vs RPM.

Also may want to have a look at an O2 clamp as most NA cars, converted to forced induction yet still use the stock ECU should run one.

[imdrax]

What exactly is an o2 clamp?

Im not quite sure if i will be running an additional injector or not even though i have one installed. I have the option of running larger injectors as well which i think will net a more consistent tune over the additional injector due to its location and possible issues with proper atomization.

[Accord2nrz]

Just remember that the primary limit to adding larger injectors is the blue can only tolerate a 50% over stock setting before you have to manually calculate your numbers. Since you have a sub injector already setup you have an advantage. if money is an option you can keep the injectors you have and use the sub injector. depending on your power goals it's easier to use the sub injector vs going all out with new larger injectors.

[Dzaster]

Here's the O2 clamp thread.

http://www.diytuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145

[imdrax]

Here's the O2 clamp thread.

http://www.diytuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145

So it seems that it will switch the signal sent to the ecu from the o2 at a preset rpm in order for the ecu not to take away fuel under boost and have only the EMB make corrections under boost?

[imdrax]

Just remember that the primary limit to adding larger injectors is the blue can only tolerate a 50% over stock setting before you have to manually calculate your numbers. Since you have a sub injector already setup you have an advantage. if money is an option you can keep the injectors you have and use the sub injector. depending on your power goals it's easier to use the sub injector vs going all out with new larger injectors.
I already have the larger injectors as well as an additional injector installed in the Upper IC pipe. I feel using both is overkill so i was curious which would provide an easier tune.

[Dzaster]

O2 clamp, yes that is what it does.

[imdrax]

Is there a known occurrence of the IS300 ecu pulling fuel under boost? I'm not quite sure why this would happen.

[Dzaster]

It's a known occurrence of fuel being pulled on most NA based computers in stock form--Toyota, Mazda, and Honda. If it uses the O2 sensor to maintain proper AFR when in closed loop then it most likely SHOULD have an O2 clamp/adapter.

[imdrax]

So im just about to start wiring everything up. Had a couple more questions.

First off I remember reading about the WBo2 being wired into the VTEC port and logging with 3rd party software. I also read the readings were different than the gauge, was this ever confirmed? I want to wire my LC1 to the EMB so i would like info please.

Secondly, if im running 330's and stock was 270 and I input these values into the EMB screen that takes care of idle and low rpm/load situation right? Since i will be using the greddy boost sensor what are some good baseline settings for the adjustments i need to make for each psi of boost? timing and fuel? Like should i be adding x% of fuel for each additional psi? and pulling X degrees timing for each psi? I really just want the car to be tuned close enough before i through it on the dyno so im not wasting my $125 hr on the dyno.

Thirdly about the o2 clamp. Without it will i still be able to get a good driveable tune? or will i constantly be fighting against the ecu? I would like to not throw yet another peice of hardware into the mix just yet. I want to just have enough to be operational and safe.

[Dzaster]

Yeah, I experienced some difference between AFR gauge and the software output file. It could have actually been the input to the EMB itself and not necessarily the software. Most folks that have used the software says it works perfect. I wished it did for me, but it didn't. I think it'll work fine for you. That is the procedure though, yellow wire on the EMB to the LC1's, I believe, brown wire.

Its been said that you should remove 1 degree of timing per # of boost. It would appear to be SOMEWHAT safe, but in some cases you may even have to be removing more timing once in max boost range. So its not something set in stone to where you can just go nuts boosting to redline with. I wouldn't recommend it.


I believe I originally started with my Additional Injection Map being rich just before boost and after boost on up. Might start with adding 25% across the board at 0 vac/psi(Greddy MAP voltage = 1.50) and 50% at your highest expected boost range. Then highlight everything from 25% to 50% values and click the Interpolate button on the menu bar. See images below.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/Interpolate.png


http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/interpolated.png

Understand that is purely as sample and so the Greddy Sensor (v) values in the far left column should be edited to accomodate finer tuning YOUR entire boost range, not the boost range of the Greddy MAP sensor itself--which is some mega PSI. You can also edit RPM range to suite your needs. Anyways, from there you would most likely be needing to datalog and trim fuel.


Pretty sure you want an O2 clamp. I recommend it when using the EMB on a NA computer. It's really a simple component. I mean I did run my car for a couple months without it, but it apparently didn't last as I burnt a hole in the head gasket and did see my car boosting 3-5psi at 13.5:1 or leaner AFR while still in closed loop.:eek: lol


That injector correction should have you idling perfect to where you don't need to even enable the Airflow Adjustment Map. Your injector upgrade is still within the EMB's 50% injector correction capability.

[imdrax]

Does EMB make adjustments based on Throttle? Like for instance lets say im scooting around at %50 throttle and since im S/C I will be in boost will the EMB be making corrections according to my map with rpmxpsi? or does the EMB not start making corrections until x% throttle? On the map you posted above i just see rpm x psi so whether im at 1% or 100% throttle it is making the same adjustment at said psi and throttle?

[Dzaster]

You can tune base on TPS vs RPM as well. Have you played with the software yet? Check it out!

[imdrax]

Well so far i can only play with the software on the comp because i have not gotten my cable in the mail yet.

1. Under real time display it has an option to log A/F ratio 0-5v. can this be used or must i use the 3rd party program?

2. If i have certain adjustments to fuel under the "airflow adjustment map-AAP" and also have adjustments under the "additional injection map-AIM" and lets say the car is at 100% throttle, 5000rpm, and 7psi and under the AFM i have it set to add 25% fuel at 100% & 5000rpm, and also have my AIM set to add %50 fuel at 7psi & 5000rpms, which correction will it make? will it make a 25% correction, %50 correction or average the 2 and correct by 37.5%?

3. While reading the support tool page i came across the instructions for the AIM and it states that adjustments made on this map is actual increase in injector D/C. this link http://greddy.com/img/PHP/products/pdf/798.pdf the very last page 26/27, by making adjustments this way i assume that since the EMB is making actual injector D/C adjustments by re-grounding rather than making adjustments via airflow, that timing would not be affected like making adjustments via the AAP, correct?

4. Looking over the instructions for setting the wideband logging here http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187913
I was curious if setting the jumpers this way will affect the way the emanage makes adjustments to the car? It looks like according to greddy http://www.greddy.com/img/PHP/products/pdf/1286.pdf only the jp4 jumper is an INPUT so technically i should only need to change this jumper in order for the EMB to recieve the wideband signal correct? not jp3, and jp7? I think if i changed all 3 the car would not start because it would be not seeing correct airflow values thinking the car is a honda using karman type sensor.

5. According to this install write up for my car http://www.seloc.net/02emanage.htm
you can see what my jumper settings should be. Also note:
" 1. You will have to set boost cut feature in Software. If airflow exceeds what is normal for 0 psi, you will get check engine light"
Should i be making any adjustments to the Boost limiter cut settings? If so what clamp Voltage should be put in to represent 0psi? What does the EMB actually do as a boost cut feature? Is it purely an ECU trick or does it have physical affects?

6. Does the Greddy Pressure sensor voltage reading translate to relative or absolute pressure? I.E. if 4.5v=43.5psi is that 43.5 psi of boost or 14.5+29psi boost=43.5? IM using the Greddy 3Bar sensor. DO you know what the psi-Volt conversion is for the 3bar?

7. Lastly what can the "Accelerator map" be used to tune for?

Thanks for any input. As soon as i get this beast running I promise to pic/video whore for you lol. little sneak peek http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2569/3956359072_a9aaa032f9_b.jpg

[Dzaster]

1. If you use that function you will have to wire in your wideband in place of the greddy map sensor--yellow port. The 3rd party software let's you keep the greddy map in place and still datalog.

2.I believe they will be compounded.

3. Yes adding fuel with AIM will yield no change in timing.

4. Yes, only that jumper needs to be set as long as all the rest are set to you factory specs.

5. Yes you'll need to enable and set the boost limiter cut map. What voltage it should be clamped at all depends on when you'll see boost. What Accord2nrrz advised me back when I first setup my car is that you want to clamp the voltage a hair before you airflow meter sees boost. For my car it's 3.6v.

6. Someone posted a chart specifically for the conversion. I use the chart all the time.:)

7. Acceleration map I wanted to see get covered here but we never got around to it, anyhow, a knowledgable friend just told me that when that map is setup properly it's purpose is so that when you mash the gas the car takes off. I never got to experimenting with it as I have my EMB's TPS setup for use with the Autotune.

Did I miss any of them? Lol

[imdrax]

Thanks for the quick reply.

6. Someone posted a chart specifically for the conversion. I use the chart all the time.:)


Do you happen to know where one could find this conversion chart? I saw a chart in one of the threads on here but it only had conversions for 4bar and 2bar sensors. mine is 3bar...?? Although the 4 bar conversion chart shows 4.5v=43.5 psi which could be interpreted as 3bar relative/4bar absolute??
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/Conversion.png

About the boost cut, so i need to figure out what voltage the STOCK MAF sends for 0 psi and use that voltage, not the voltage the greddy sensor sends correct?

[Dzaster]

That's the chart. 1.50v on the greddy = 0 psi/vac. Absolute, 1st bar is pretty much useless. Well not really since it can still be used to make timing adjustments While off boost as well as in boost.

And yes 0 on the stock MAF but like I shares you want to clamp it before it hits 0psi on the stock sensor as it may start buggering up shortly before hitting 0.

[imdrax]

That's the chart. 1.50v on the greddy = 0 psi/vac. Absolute, 1st bar is pretty much useless. Well not really since it can still be used to make timing adjustments While off boost as well as in boost.

And yes 0 on the stock MAF but like I shares you want to clamp it before it hits 0psi on the stock sensor as it may start buggering up shortly before hitting 0.

The weird thing for me is to think about how the greddy sensor works then. Lets say i had it sitting on my table reading atmospheric pressure, it should be outputting 1.5v?? lets say my car is idling and its installed and for imagination sake im idling at 29inhg which is roughly -14.5psi, it will be outputting 0.5v correct? when than does it output 0v? never?

[Dzaster]

when than does it output 0v? never?

When the car is off.:D

Here is a sample of my car at idle.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/idleMAPv.png

[imdrax]

Thanks. Hopefully my cable arrives today. I'm sure ill have more more questions as soon as i start it up.

[imdrax]

So im looking to setup the anti stall feature, what are good values to put in. I notice the car is running fairly well all around except for when im driving and then let off the accelerator to shift it seems to bog down and read really rich for a split second and the go lean.

[imdrax]

here are pics of my maps
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/3971300648_59064ec7b0_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2553/3970531575_59064ec7b0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/3970531555_77052d6ed5_o.jpg

[imdrax]

Well after spending most of the day out trying to tune i have made some progress but have run into one problem. It seems to be what you were talking about earlier the "lean tip in" except that Im noticing anytime im taking off from a stop even at fairly light throttle like lets say 5%-15% and im accelerating, the car jumps to waaaayyy lean up to the high teens 18-19 even up to max 22 and bogs down but the log shows that im still in a fair amount of vacuum like 12inhg-4inhg, is this normal? I tried messing with the acceleration map and it didnt really get me anywhere. I also tried adjusting the airflow map at the tp and rpm spots it was happening and nothing really happened. Does this mean i need that O2 clamp for sure? what would happen if i disconnected the TPS wire from the emanage since i am making no adjustments via the TPS, to see if the problem still persists? Is that possible? there are 3 things I havent tried let me know what you think about them.

1. Adjust the value for "GAIN" in the acceleration map. Im assuming this is the amount of time in seconds although in the upper corner of the window it says "GAIN% 0.5 increment". I would rather not change GAIN value until im confident on what it stands for.

2. the other option i havent tried is to change my "boost clamp" value at the lower rpm column, to a lower voltage in order for me to control the fuel at those points instead of the ecu. Like for instance looking at my log i notice the lean tip in start around 1800-1900 rpm and 10%TP and 2.5v from the stock maf. so i clamp the maf from 1500 to 2500 at 2.4v and goto my AIM and at the corresponding spots add fuel.

3. last thing i could try is to not use the injector correction and do that by hand instead. Going through the tables and adjusting all of the cells manually. start with low RPM and Vacuum and starting with the standard correction % of my injector difference to get the idle in check and then lean the rest of the map out gradually.

anyways your thoughts comments concerns are appreciated and here is a quick snippet of my log that shows the lean tip in.
Time (ms )A TP(%)B TP (v)C RPMD Airflow In (v)E 2nd Airflow In (v)F Airflow Out (v)G GSensor (v)H A/F Ratio Boost (psi)I

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/3972784983_cac5f09756_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/3973602832_d276dbed31_o.jpg

[Dzaster]

That's kinda awkward as usually lean tip in happens when your in boost up until the car is put into open loop. You can't just add fuel with the AIM?

Have you also checked these output values by datalogging with the official support tool software? Or your wideband software? Could be some inconsistencies with the afr of the emanagetool output and the actual wbo2 gauge.

[imdrax]

Yea, the gauge and the software read exactly the same. The extremely lean readings correspond with the car getting bogged down like i let off of the throttle and then picking back up and AFR stoiching out. Im going to just keep messing with it. On the one full throttle run i did i saw between 11-12 AFR up to 5500rpms when i shut it down. Im gunna head back out right now a run it some more.

[imdrax]

So I fixed my lean stumble by adjusting the Vortech Bypass valve to close under less vacuum in order to not shock the MAF. I have also found some more info after HOURS of searching on the acceleration map. heres a snipet from this site http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t20375.html

""This Map is used to increase injector pulse width depending on the throttle acceleration. The
stock ECU may not compensate for quick changes in throttle position and may cause the motor
to run lean under heavy shifting or quick throttle movements. This Map will enable you to
add fuel under these conditions, for a limited amount of time. The Gain setting will control
how long the acceleration adjustment will be effective. Whatever number is set for the Gain
setting will determine the increments in which the additional fuel will decrease per injector
pulse.
For instance, if the gain is set at 1 and the acceleration map value is 40, the e-manage will add
40% injector pulse width and decrease it by 1% every time an injector fires. It will continue
decreasing by 1% until it reaches 0, which will take 40 injector pulses. If the gain is set at 0.5
percent, it will take 80 pulses for it to reach 0."
"

[Dzaster]

Cool beans with the fix and the Accel Map.

[imdrax]

So I was out tuning today and I'm trying to get my tune decent before I hit the dyno Tuesday. Around 4300 rpms the car starts running lean going up to around 13.5:1 at 4 psi and so I shut it down. I tried adding fuel through the aditional injection map and am up to the +30's in the cells in that area. I'm not sure why it's not responding to more fuel. I haven't logged my duty cycle because the emanagetools program won't log it and I don't want to use the support tool for lack of wb logging. Any suggestions? I would really like to get at least a couple of 100% throttle pulls to redline before I dyno so I don't waste my time.

[Dzaster]

Okay, now this sounds like it could very well be the "lean tip-in" problem. I'm looking at your emanage tools datalog and you don't seem to have any logs of what AFR looks like at 0 and up psi boost. From what I see though it seems like your leaning out right about when boost kicks in. If this is so and you are not decently flooring the pedal to put the ECU into "Open Loop" then your problem is definitely "lean tip-in".

That is one of the crappy things about that emanagetools--although I read that the dude who made that software was working on duty cycle datalogging as well, but I guess things went in a different direction and the software was left as is. In fact, I think what we have is actually an older version as it lacks features that I've seen in other's uses of it on another forum.

You have an AFR gauge with the WBO2 kit right? If so, just datalog with the Greddy Support Tool and put a camera on your AFR gauge and RPS/Tach and video your pulls while datalogging with teh EMB. Check how the AFR's correlate with the RPM and match to the EMB datalog's RPM. That is how I've done it and works like a champ.

[imdrax]

Heres from just a minute ago, realize its cold out right now so its running richer. Also heres a copy of my emanage additional injection map, notice how much Inj D/C im adding and its still leaning out and i havent even been past 5000rpm yet and only hitting 3.5 psi. On the previous run i logged my duty cycles and i hit 42%real D/C and 54% total duty cycle at 40% correction, at 4500 rpm, and 3.5 PSI and my AFR gauge went up to 13.6 before i killed it. So i upped everything by like 20% and did this run. I just cant believe that after adding so much D/C, running at night, not even hitting 3.5psi that im still leaning out.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/3978557407_9118a57836_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/3979325222_b7c7193776_o.jpg

[Dzaster]

You might consider just clamping the Boost Cut Limiter[/B](MAF) voltage at one voltage across the board. Best to set it to clamp the voltage just before entering boost so that the MAF doesn't have time to wig out. That is what I've done as well as a most other's I know who have had there car's tuned professionally.

I don't know for sure, but based on the last datalog, it looks like your MAF would be at 0psi somewhere around 3.6-3.7v so I would look to clamp it .05-.1v before it sees 0psi--whenever that is on your car.

Also, have you upgraded your injectors? If so, what are the before and after for injector correction feature? Or did I ask you that in another post.:confused: lol

[imdrax]

You might consider just clamping the Boost Cut Limiter[/B](MAF) voltage at one voltage across the board. Best to set it to clamp the voltage just before entering boost so that the MAF doesn't have time to wig out. That is what I've done as well as a most other's I know who have had there car's tuned professionally.

I don't know for sure, but based on the last datalog, it looks like your MAF would be at 0psi somewhere around 3.6-3.7v so I would look to clamp it .05-.1v before it sees 0psi--whenever that is on your car.

Also, have you upgraded your injectors? If so, what are the before and after for injector correction feature? Or did I ask you that in another post.:confused: lol

As you can see in the log the maf is already clamped at 3.7v. I have it set 3.7v across. The stock injectors were 250cc and im running 330's. my part throttle and cruising tune is pretty dialed in but at this point i cant figure out how this car can possibly be running lean at such a low psi after having added this much D/C. Tomorrow I am going to try and find time to do a boost leak test and see if i might have a post MAF leak and also check all my connections at the injection harness to ecu.

[Dzaster]

In the Boost Cut Limiter map above it looks like you have it clamped all "here and there". I'd personally recommend clamping the voltage while its still in vacuum, a little before 0 vac/boost.


Those injectors may be a little small for your ride. I'd look to do at least a 50% increase and make full use of the EMB injector correction and the rest you can trim via AAM. Just to be sure you are well within safe duty cycling.


You understand how the O2 clamp works and how your ECU operates in closed loop right? ECU uses your O2 sensor to correct AFR to NA type AFR's and in boost that's detrimental. That's also why I asked if you are gradually gassing or flooring it(WOT) putting the ECU into open loop.

[imdrax]

My boost cut map is set to 3.7v all the way across which is just before 0psi. Supposedly the stock injectors can be utilized until about 5psi which is why i dont think i should be maxing these out at only 3psi. Yeah i understand open/closed loop. On the log above i am literally DROPPING THE HAMMER lol. Ill update after i do a boost leak test tomorrow.

[imdrax]

Well after searching for vacuum leaks I happened to catch the part number for my inctors out of the corner of my eye, and low and behold I look them up and they are 310cc injectors. So will be ordering some 460cc rx7 injectorrs today and have already ordered a walbro 255 fuel pump. My question for you is since the stock injectors are ~250-270cc by using 460's ill be running AROUND 70-75% LARGER. How hard will these be able to control? I know Emanage says %50 MAX but is there anyway around this?

[Dzaster]

It will AUTOMATICALLY correct it with the Injector Correction and the rest you'll need to do AAM. Usually its just the idle and off-boost RPM.

Be sure you sort out the injector impedance as well. If those RX7 injectors are low and your originals were high, look to install a resistor box to keep from over-fueling.

[imdrax]

They are high Imp. So using the Injector correction emanage lets me enter any value I want, but should i enter 250 as starting and 460 as after? Or should i put my new injector size as 250*1.5=375? so for my car can the emanage control up to 375cc's correct? So i would enter in 375 and then manually make adjustments in the airflow map correct? Or would i put 460 and then fine tune or does it not matter because the emanage will just make %50 correction no matter what number i put in >375?

[Dzaster]

The last bit is correct. I just input the actual injectors before/after and make whatever necessary corrections after in the AAM.

[maxgtr2000]

I know one thing is to make sure the ground wire (black wire)for the additional injection harness is hooked up and then verify that the changes are being made by inputting a number like 10 at the idle rpm portion, your afr should go richer. I actually had my harness hooked up for a month without the ground wire hooked up. The emanage would log the IDC but there was nothing going to the injectors. Also if you were on a stock fuel pump you would lean out.

[imdrax]

I did notice in the install write up i followed it had the GROUND for the main harness and the GROUND for the injection harness going to different grounds. Did you guys install them to different grounds or the same? I know for some reason with an AFC you wire 2 grounds; one closer to the ecu than the other and wasn't sure if the EMB is the same.

And when installing the 460cc injectors i will be entering 250 as original and 460 as new injectors and then pull more fuel through airflow map until the idle stoich's out. Does anyone running larger than 50% over stock have their maps/screen shots for me to look at? Im curious how much timing you guys are adding/pulling.

One more thing, has anyone noticed if using the airflow map when also using the injector correction feature, are the airflow adjustments COMPOUNDED or are they in addition? for example, i enter 250/375 to keep at 50% max and then try and pull the rest out on airflow map.
Here the emb uses a correction factor of .667(250/375) and if i put -12 in the airflow map it could do 1 of 2 things. Either:

1.It can use the correction on airflow map in conjunction: .667-.12=.547 thus: 460*.547=251?
2.It will it subtract 12% from the new-already corrected MAF value causing: .667*460=307 and THEN make the correction: 307*(1-.12)=270?

The difference is somewhat negligible but I would still like to know exactly what my adjustments are doing.

[maxgtr2000]

The injector ground is different. It has to be hooked up to whatever potential the injectors fire at. My injector ground is just a regular ground, it is not connected at the ecu. The airflow map correction is in addition to what the scaling is when you put in the injector size correction.

[Dzaster]

That is too much jargon for me atm, but here is my finding.

1) No injector correction and AAM zeroed out = does not even idle

2) Injector correction set, still zeroed out AAM = 10.9-11.5AFR

3) Injector correction set and -25 in 500/1000 RPM columns of AAM = 13.5 and leaner AFR.

I was shared some good tuning info, although not sure if its applicable for all/other makes/models. I was told to take an adjustable timing light shoot it while the car was holding 4K RPM. That was the max timing my ECU would ever allow.

I was then told that my motor only like a total of 30BTDC and then it starts to detonate. So I needed to be sure that by the time I hit 4K RPM I was to have the Ignition Timing Adjustment Map set so that there was 30* max timing. However, I have the alky/water injection so I have thing a little different.

[imdrax]

So since you are pulling that much fuel via airflow have you done any adjustments to you idle/part throttle timing? Cutting the airflow signal that much has to be advancing your timing quite a bit.

[imdrax]

Well I was able to get my new 255lph and 460cc installed and started the car today. This car is all over the place. At first it was running pig rich, then idle was sporadic as hell dipping really lean. I tried with correction at 460 and at 375 and adjusting the airflow map. I noticed that my injector duty cycle was at 0%. so i upped the duty cycle in the injection map and the idle smoothed out but the emanage log doesnt show any increase in duty cycle corresponding to my input. Im thinking that because i said put 20% more duty cycle and duty cycle was at 0, 20% of 0 is 0 so it added nothing. But When i give the car any gas at all it sputters really bad. Its getting late so I will test more combonations tommorow. Im thinking of leaving the injectors correction at stock sizes and pulling all the airflow out via the airflow map.

[imdrax]

The injector ground is different. It has to be hooked up to whatever potential the injectors fire at. My injector ground is just a regular ground, it is not connected at the ecu. The airflow map correction is in addition to what the scaling is when you put in the injector size correction.
Somehow from searching google about "emanage maf" I ended up on a some maxima forum and noticed your screen name posting some info on a z32 maf swap thread.

What it seems like the nissan guys do is similar to what the dsm guys do; use the larger MAF (2g maf for dsm's/z32 for nissan) which has nearly 50% more cross sectional flow(dsm) and install into the 1g's along with 550cc's and they nearly cancel each other out which makes tuning much easier with larger injectors.

Now what I'm wondering is that since my stock MAF is installed into a 2.75" pipe from the factory, and since my new injectors are 84% larger, what if I were to install my MAF into a pipe with nearly the same amount of increased cross sectional flow? Doing the math:

I'll need to match the % increase in cross directional flow(area) with the % increase in cc of injection. using (newcc/oldcc)=(newD/oldD)^2
(460cc/250cc)=1.84
Then simplifying the formula for area down to (D^1/D^2)^2=1.84 where D^1 is desired ID and D^2 is stock you get (D^1"/2.75")^2=1.84, D^1=~3.75"

So it would come out to using a pipe with an ID of ~3.75". And the 3.75"ID pipe has area of 10.9" where as a 2.75" pipe has 5.9". With an additional 5" of area, around 45% of the airflow now entering the engine would be unmetered and with the 460cc's being pulsed at the same rate as the stock 250cc's, 45% of the fuel entering the engine is unaccounted for theoretically maintaining an even keel.

Im sure 3.5" would get me close, providing around 75% more cross sectional airflow over stock. Any thoughts?

ONE LAST NOTE: There is such a thing as Total Theoretical Pulsewidth Minimum, which is basically the lowest acceptable pulse width value that the ECU will send to the injector. I believe that this is what is occurring with my injectors; I have reached the minimum airflow at which the ECU stops reducing pulsewidth and my larger injectors cannot support this extremely low pulsewidth and are shutting down. Im curious if the above modification to the MAF housing would be subject to the same effects unless I were to OVERSCALE the MAF housing and then ADD pulsewidth? I in no way can afford to go Ultimate right now and would love to figure out how to make the EMB work with this setup.

[imdrax]

OK guys im just about out of ideas. Finally finished fabbing up my 3.5" maf housing, got everything hooked up and running. The problem im having is that for some reason my duty cycle is dropping to 0% at idle but sometimes it will say 0% but 2ms and sometimes it is saying 0% and 0ms??? I even had the injectors goto 100% duty cycle once at idle!!!!!
can i get someones email and have you look at these log files please, thanks.

EDIT: At this point I have narrowed the problem down to the first few seconds of start up. For the first 5-10 seconds after starting the car my Emanage reads 0% for DC and Pulsewidth and stumbles really hard and will die unless i continuously blip the throttle until suddenly the emanage starts showing readings of around 2ms of inj pw at which time the car idles fine. What can be causing this delay? Can it be something wrong with the emanage or maybe something with my injectors? It could not be from the wiring or it wouldnt just happen during startup and i have checked my wiring 3 times today.

[Dzaster]

I'll take a look, although not sure what I'll find or be able to do.

don96799@yahoo.com

[Dzaster]

I had a look at your logs. Was thinking might have been good if you attached your .GSC file to look at as well.

However, I did see what you're saying.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/imdrax.png

^^^ In that image, that flat area, the car is started? Are you fairly confident with the wiring of your unit? Almost seems like it might be tied into a sort of sensor ground and does not come "online" right away.

I'll try and get a snapshot of my log tomorrow logging from startup and see how it looks.

[imdrax]

No, the car is started right atfter your red arrow ends, around the 3.2 mark. You can see between startup (about 3.2) and around 9 seconds the car is running but it shows 0%dc and 0ms pw. Notice also around 9 seconds you see the spike in dc (Dark blue i think). This is what is so wierd, i have to keep the car running by blipping throttle (notice green line from 3-9 seconds) and then WAM the dc kicks on and the car holds an idle. I checked my wiring like 5 times. I even rewired and soldered the ground for the Injector harness.

Im beginning to wonder if something my not be compatable with these RX7 460's I am using. They are High IMP, 13kohms, direct fit in my rail, but I am wondering if possibly the Latency is so far off from my factory injectors that this is my problem. For example lets say I have airflow adjusted to output .9v in order to bring the PW down so its not too rich, and it bring it to 1ms and my latency is .7ms. well i would think the injector would have a hard time doing this and would not be able to energize fast enough to stay open. And with EMB we do not have a compensation for this like the EMU does.