HELP!!! Running lean...

[lsvtecem1]

i drive a 97 civic with greddy kit at 7 pounds td04-15g. When driving at part throttle between 2000 and 3000 rpm my car will lean out really bad so i have to let off the throttle then get back on it but it does it all over again untill i cut the car off and cut it back on. It does it after i do like a 2nd or 3rd gear pull.:confused:

[Dzaster]

If your ECU is originally Naturally Aspirated, then you may be seeing teh "lean tip-in" phenomena. Not really a phenom, but its what the ECU is programmed to do through readings received from teh O2 sensor when in closed loop.

See this thread.
http://www.diytuning.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1112#post1112

[Accord2nrz]

LS the info your giving is not much to go on, Your civic was NA from the get go and your car should be OBD2 since that's the year honda switched over to obd2.

It sounds like the car is leaning out hard just as the car goes into boost, than can be resolved in a number of ways, using your current setup you can "Overwhelm" the ECU forcing it to go open loop by adding crazy amounts of fuel at just that point and then cutting it back.

Can you recreate this phenomena?
Does the car exhibit any other oddities when this happens? Studdering , choking, etc..
How many pounds are you pushing when this happens?
Has this always happened or did it just start happening recently?

The last question is the most important, it'll tell me which direction to steer you in.

[lsvtecem1]

Im runnig a mini-me, D16y7 block with D16y8 Head, on greddy TD04h-15g Kit, on 7psi. When it happens the car will bog down and on my wideband it shows the afr lean out from like 14:2 then just starts to lean out all the way to like 18:1-19:1, and it always happens when im just cruising not in boost. It is obd2a and it is a stock P2P ecu. The car used to be tuned but that is when the motor was stock and running off a P2E ecu and it ran great but i changed the head to a vtec head(Y8) and i didnt set the emanage for vtec cause i didnt want to change the engagement point. Well i then went out for a drive after the headswap and the car started to lean out, so i needed to tune it , and thats when i got the cable from giff and hooked my laptop up to the emanage. After that I cleared the data cause i dint know the password for the tune, and i downloaded a few maps just to try to get the car running. Im currently using a 10psi tune(Mark10psituned) and i set the injectors from 240 to 240cc cause thats what i have, but instead of running rich it still leans out during a pull. When i do a 1,2,3 gear pull it will lean out after 4500 rpm, ive tried adding fuel to the airflow adjustment map, i have the boxes from 3000 rpm to 7500 rpm and 50 to 100% throttle, to a value of 50 which is max. I have not messed with add. injection map. I dont think that im maxing the injectors out. I have tried to add fuel between 2000 rpm and 3000 rpm where it usually leans out at during part throttle, but with no results. I really don't know what to do, i have a brand new hondata s300 sitting here that i could put in it but i dont wanna give up on emanage.

[Accord2nrz]

what about your map sensor. if its OEM in any way you are overloading it and causing it to go nutz, then the emanage airflow is taking over which is why it leans out until you get off the throttle.

[lsvtecem1]

Yes sir its oem, but i know that they are good for up to 10.5 psi or maybe just 10. Maybe my map sensor is just going bad. Im going to try to put a new on it to see what it does, ill let you know.

[messiahx]

Use the additional injection map for adding fuel. Using the airflow adjustment map can cause the ECU to change timing as you're changing the reading from the map/maf sensor.

If you're running 240cc injectors, I'd imagine they are maxed out around 5-7 psi, if not less. When you're datalogging, make sure to log the injector duty cycles and try not to go above 85%.

[Dzaster]

And that MAP sensor is made for boost or is NA(strictly vacuum)?

[lsvtecem1]

the car is still running the same after a new map sensor was installed. The OEM map sensor is mainly just N/A, but can be used for boost it just doesnt work after about 10psi. How do i log the injector duty cycles???

[Dzaster]

Go to: Options, click on Real Time Display in the drop down box.

In the window that pops up go to the bottom right and click on Input Data Setup. The next widnow pops up, make sure that you have the box checked for the item circled in the pic below.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/5-24-20099-35-06PM.png


Next time you datalog you look for this:
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/InjectorDutyCycle.png


And that's your Injector Duty Cycle datalogged in a nut shell.:cool:

[Accord2nrz]

85% is ok, i Normally try to stay under 75% this can be accomplished via increasing your fuel pressure but for now they just try to resolve the major issues before getting into fine tuning the thing =)

[lsvtecem1]

Ok, I will try that.

[lsvtecem1]

well i tried it and it doesnt show anything for total injector duty cycle, it just shows 0%. Im guessing that i have to have the harness for the injectors. I have a question, What exactly does Boost cut do(Clamp)??

[Dzaster]

Oh yes, you need to have the injector wires imbedded in the main harness/plug. Do you not have them? If not then that is def. something to be desired.
Boost Limiter Cut is to clamp your stock airflow sensor, especially if its originally tailored for a naturally application. If you clamp you then will want to tune with the Greddy or GM MAP sensors when in boost.

[lsvtecem1]

Yea i don't have the injector harness/connector.

[Dzaster]

Do you have the ignition harness? If so you should have some wires that you could swap over to the main harness and use for the injectors. I think you just need 4 wires.

This is most likely why you are leaning out. You can't effectively add fuel. At this point your only option to add fuel is the Air Flow Map, however, that will have implications on your igntion timing.

[Accord2nrz]

+1 for dzasters statement, the lack of ability to add fuel on its own without affecting timing is what is leaning you out hard. i would run low boost until you can correct this. the damage that will be done to your piston rings is irreversible.

I would google up what is the weakest component in your engine becuase that will be what goes first when running lean condition over long periods of time.

[lsvtecem1]

Well guys i messed with the boost clamp and the car is running better now. I turned the boost down from 7PSI to 4PSI it sucks but i want the motor to last for a little bit, its still lean at high rpm's but i will get the harness for the injectors so that i can give it more fuel. the car used to lean out on me at about 2000 and 3000 RPM while at part throttle or just cruising. I will upload a copy of my map when i get a chance. O by the way thank you guys for helping me.:)

[Dzaster]

I'll say you're welcomed for the community.

However, I don't know what that code of ECU you have means, but I was just wondering if the ECU is from a boosted car or not. If its from a naturally aspirated car/motor setup then you could prolly benefit from an O2 clamp.

[messiahx]

Well guys i messed with the boost clamp and the car is running better now. I turned the boost down from 7PSI to 4PSI it sucks but i want the motor to last for a little bit, its still lean at high rpm's but i will get the harness for the injectors so that i can give it more fuel. the car used to lean out on me at about 2000 and 3000 RPM while at part throttle or just cruising. I will upload a copy of my map when i get a chance. O by the way thank you guys for helping me.:)

Make sure you aren't getting any detonation when it gets lean. If you don't know what it sounds like, put all the windows up, turn off the radio, and floor it in 3rd gear from 2k rpms to redline. If you hear what sounds like marbles in the engine or a very click metallic tapping when it goes lean, you've got detonation. You'll know it when you hear it. Let off the gas immediately if you do hear it.

[Dzaster]

Well guys i messed with the boost clamp and the car is running better now. I turned the boost down from 7PSI to 4PSI it sucks but i want the motor to last for a little bit, its still lean at high rpm's but i will get the harness for the injectors so that i can give it more fuel. the car used to lean out on me at about 2000 and 3000 RPM while at part throttle or just cruising. I will upload a copy of my map when i get a chance. O by the way thank you guys for helping me.:)

Just curious what you did with your boost clamp. Was it not set, or it was set but you changed the settings. Update?