New Support Tool Install

[akinat90]

Just purchased the support tool and i am just awaiting delivery. It seems as though i am the only JDM Mazda Familia on the forum so far. May car was originally a JDM R4 i.e 1.8 4WD A/T, i have since istalled a US MSP engine and i am currently using the basic EMB setup. As soon as i install the software i will need all the help i can get since i am new to tuning.
I am getting fuel cut at 3500RPM at boost so i want to be able to deal with that and some other A/F and timing issues to get the most out of the car.
I will appreciate all the help i can get
thank guys

[Dzaster]

So you getting the Greddy Boost MAP sensor as well right? I'm thinking that will be your means of getting around fuel cut--by clamping the stock MAP.

[Accord2nrz]

Dzaster is dead on, what is happening is that under your boost your map is overloading and basically going into its own failsafe mode. I would suggest you start by clamping your map voltage to 4.5 in the beginning just to feel out the car :)

[akinat90]

So you getting the Greddy Boost MAP sensor as well right? I'm thinking that will be your means of getting around fuel cut--by clamping the stock MAP.

I am not sure what my needs are or will be right now thats why i said in my first post that i will need all the help i can get since a lot of this is new to me but i will appreciate all the suggestions.
Can you get around it with just clamping the MAF voltage or is it only possible with the MAP sensor?

[Accord2nrz]

my bad your using a maf sensor. Yes i believe it can clamp maf voltage also.

[akinat90]

Just got my support tool and installed it. Incidentally the box says version 1.10 but when i installed the version is 1.49. I have to get the serial to USB adapter since my laptop doesnt have a serial port. Where can i get the support tool instructions

[Dzaster]

Cool. I just uploaded the support tool manual to the downloads section under "manuals"

[akinat90]

Thanks now i have anothe rproblem. When i bought my support toll cd, it said version 1.10 on the box. When I installed it then it said version 1.49. when i did the initial start up with the emanage/comp the first mesage i get was "EMANAGE UNIT IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THIS VERSION. CONTACT MY LOCAL DEALER" It is communicating because i can see my main unit information. i can also see my parameter setting but when i try to export or inport i am getting that message

HELP!!! What do i do now to solve this problem?

[RPW00Mirage]

download 1.49 and upgrade...

[akinat90]

download 1.49 and upgrade...

My support tool software is version 1.49. Is there a different upgrade for the emanage unit itself?

[akinat90]

Believe it or not problem solved thanks to info from the yahoo emanage group. Just had to change the language setting to English U.S. Now i just have to learn to tune it lol

[Dzaster]

Oh wow, so it was just a matter of language that was buggering it up huh? Glad you got a handle on that.

[akinat90]

Can someone please tell me where to start especially as it relates to airflow adjustment map and how to get rid of my fuel cut. I tried clamping my boost cut car still does the same thing i.e. at about 3500rpm on boost engine stalls then picks up again, I dont have much of a clue where to start. Obviosly i am doing something wrong.
How do i know/record what is happening at different throttle positions at different RPM.
Somebody walk e through here

[RPW00Mirage]

why don't you screenshot and post up your maps...

[akinat90]

I can do that later tonight when i get home, but most of them are just empty, but i will send what i have, thanks

[akinat90]

I was trying to use my map trace feature and I cant seem to get it to work. Is there suppose to be a correct sequence to using it. What i do is open the particular map then hit map trace and nothing happens

[Dzaster]

I think you just want to do one gear pull as the map trace highlights too many boxes if you are doing more than one gear pull. I've was advised to use 3rd gear.

You are supposed to be connected, car running ready to do your pull/run, then open the map you want to trace, and open map trace just before you make your pull or hit clear just before your pull. It should highlight the range of values within that pull. When done what I like to do is pull off to the side and take a screen capture of the maptraced map.

[akinat90]

Just a few observations. With my real time display i am not seeing all the data in the feilds i set eg RPM. I am still not seeing anything in the map trace, I did what you suggested and it just sits there in the top left corner of every map i open. What else can i be doing wrong?
Maybe i should just erase everything and start from scratch

[Dzaster]

Huh............since you say you can't set RPM for real time display and you can't get your map trace to do its things, you may wanna double check your wiring, especially the RPM wire.

[akinat90]

On further iuspection, the only reading i am gettin is my throttle position, Airflow voltage in and out. All the connections are good, but no map trace feature or no RPM reading. Could it be an issue with the jumper settings or maybe rotary settings?

Does anyone has info on the extra rotary switches inside the unit and the jumper settings, other than what is in the manual i.e. what jumpers affect what (injection, ignition etc)

Did some searching in the Yahoo emanage group. It said "follow the setting in the PDF if you are running an ignition harness the setting are different jumper settings they are JP1 1-2, JP2 2-3, JP3 2-3 the rest of the jumpers and the rotary knobs are the same".

I will try this and see what happens

[Dzaster]

Not sure, but that would be good to know I guess, jumper identities.

[akinat90]

I tried all the different jumper settings and they didn't seem to have to have any effect, still no RPM signal nor any voltage reading from the injectors and no Map Trace in my real time display. Only reading I am getting is from the TPS and the Airflow Sensor.

Somebody please rescue me from putting a hammer to the EMB

On a slightly better note I found the Jumper Setting and posted them in the Download Section.

Awaiting a rescuer:confused:

[shootz]

Did you check the wiring guide under the downloads section? I postedd the wiring for a 2.0L Mazda Protege (familia) engine a couple weeks ago. It works for the MSP too.

[akinat90]

I have seen that pin out before. My car is a JDM and my pinout At least where it plugs into the ECU is totally different. I attached what it looks like and this is from the japanese manual

[akinat90]

Well i pulled the ecu out to check all the wiring. The Rpm signal wire was stil soldered in place, nothing loose. When i put everything back together and reconnected and check my realtime display everything worked. Go figure. Now i can start tuning and explore my new toy.:D

On another note I turned my ignition on to start the car and heard a bang in the engine bay. When i checked i discovered that the hose from my PCV valve had blown off from the valve itself and one from the intake. Seemed to have some kind of ignition/combustion at ignition maybe from unburnt gas. Any comments on this

[Accord2nrz]

could be signs of an injector problem. first answer would be just excess built up fumes that ignited, however if you can duplicate the event i stand to wager one of the injectors is stuck open and when you presurise the system before start it spits some fuel in there somewhere, also note if you stay on the rich side. it will be a tell tale sign

[akinat90]

Can someone explain to me the difference between adding fuel by the airflow map and adding by the aditional injection map

[Accord2nrz]

using the injection map you're actually telling the fuel injectors themselves to add fuel. If you use the airflow adjustment map you are telling the car that there is more air going into the motor than there really is, so the car adjusts by adding fuel and changing the timing. If at all possible add fuel via the injection map first.

[akinat90]

Is there any advantages/disadvantages to using either way to adding fuel and which one is most effective in terms of hp or response? Or is there any drawback to using both simultaneously

[Dzaster]

For tuning purposes you'd want to use the Additional Injector Map for adding fuel so that your timing is not altered. That's what the ignition map is for, to alter igntion indepentantly.

[akinat90]

This is my current map settings I have not messed with the timing (yet). The car feels really good right now, and feels like it lurches at about 4500rpm and pulls like crazy. Since I got my rpm signal to work the car has totally transformed into a gentle monster. luv it. Feel free to make any suggestions, i will surely welcome them

[Dzaster]

I'm not sure which way the timing goes when you add/trim using the Airflow map, but my guess is that when you add fuel with the airflow map it also adds ignition timing. May want to watch that. Be best to add fuel with additional injector map.

But if its going fine then right on. However, you have some tools to monitor vitals? Pulling and diagnsing spark plugs after your tuning?

[maxgtr2000]

If the car is dohc/twin cam then at 4000 rpm it becomes a beast, and I agree with Dzaster, you will want to watch your adjustments on the air/fuel map you don't want to increase them too much because it affects timing, I have read many time where it is better to get those adjustments closer to zero on afr map and just use the ignition timing and injector maps to make adjustments.

[akinat90]

Thanks for the advice, i will make some adjustments tomorrow.

[akinat90]

Question. As a rule does the n/a ecu advance or retard timing at higher RPM or does it depend on the car manufacturer? My reason for asking is that I'm trying to find out what my car does at higher rpm so i can determine what to do with my timing map. thought my internals are forged i still want to avoid detonation. I am hearing what sounds like pinging at above 5500 RPM or maybe it is a noisy cam lifter not sure yet.

[Dzaster]

I believe most NA ECU's will advance timing as RPM's climb. I know mine does.

[akinat90]

My original engine was 1800cc with 240cc injectors. Now with the 2.0l the injectors are 285cc. what should i use in my parameter settings for injector size 285 or use 240 before and the injector change of 285cc after because of the engine swap. Dont know how the japanese ecu adapts as it relates to the engine swap

[Dzaster]

So you are using the 1.8 ECU for that 2.0?

[akinat90]

The engine is physically the same just the stroke is different. the 1.8 is just a detuned 2.0. The car is from the japanese market but the engine is USDM mazdaspeed. The ecu is different, even the pinout.
Which brings me back to the original question................

[Accord2nrz]

Start with the 240cc and then check it to see what your duty cycles are sitting at. if they're above 75% then go to the higher setting.

[Antilag]

Hi, need help for jumper setting fr SR20DET, any help? is it normal for the wiring on the 1 connector not matching what it shows on the manual?

help would greatly be appreciated

[RPW00Mirage]

If you purchased a used unit you may have to move some of the wires around in the connectors.

[Accord2nrz]

If it is the main harness then yes that's not right, but if its the additional harness then thats normal. Then it's a matter of popping the wires out and placing them in the correct sockets to mate up with your ecu's requirements. if you look there is a grey outer casing and a white inner casing. using a fine pointed object the white casing slides up allowing you to push the wires out from the connecting end. be very gentle with it as you dont want to mess up the harness. =)

[akinat90]

Is there anything that the ecu does at around 3200 - 3500rpm on the auto transmission car that causes what seem like a fuel cut? In my earlier post i was getting that issue where at around that point i would get what i thought was fuel cut. Then it seemed like a bogging down cause i figured at that point i was getting spool and getting the maximum airflow the ecu was used to with the NA engine and therefore the injectors were dumping gas to match. I clamped the voltage fairly low at that point(3000-3500rpm) tried taking out fuel, tried adding but with no real success. It would only do that initially then no more "fuel cut" at higher rpm @ 10psi. i was even wondering if the mazda auto has a feature similar to the vtec as it relates to the shift point.
Additional things to consider in my case if i didn't mention before:
original engine was JDM 1.8L auto 4WD now USDM 2.0L MAzdaspeed engine auto 4WD
original injectors 240cc now 285cc

On another note what are your thoughts on adjustable cam gears on a turbo car

[Accord2nrz]

Yes actually my car shifts around then, your TCU should have a point programmed in there somewhere around that range. So when you get into the tranny runs off of pressure. If you have boost pressure built up already some of that pressure get into the tranny causing a funny shifting action which can be confused with fuel cut.

[akinat90]

Yes actually my car shifts around then, your TCU should have a point programmed in there somewhere around that range. So when you get into the tranny runs off of pressure. If you have boost pressure built up already some of that pressure get into the tranny causing a funny shifting action which can be confused with fuel cut.

how exactly does boos pressure get into the tranny? Is there something that neutralise that? Does it interfere with fuel flow

[Accord2nrz]

Well think of it this way, on my tranny it uses pressurized tranny fluid during shifting and everything, but still has outlets to breathe, call them escape valves if you will. When you turbocharge an NA motor the increased air pressure goes EVERYWHERE inside the motor. It doesn't just stay in the head. your car uses a MAP sensor to help indicate airflow and thus engine load, so if your map isn't acting right your TCU will be reading a different engine load and shift the car. it doesnt necessary mean your hitting fuel cut but it simulates it sorta.

Also look at it this way, on your fuel system it should be a return system, so you have a vacuum line going to your FPR, it sees boost pressure too. Everywhere there is a vacuum line connected in your motor it WILL see positive pressure when your in boost. Think of your motor as a whole and not in components and you'll see what im talkin about. It took me forever to get that concept down. =) thanks again Tguy for teaching me the right way ;)

[akinat90]

Well think of it this way, on my tranny it uses pressurized tranny fluid during shifting and everything, but still has outlets to breathe, call them escape valves if you will. When you turbocharge an NA motor the increased air pressure goes EVERYWHERE inside the motor. It doesn't just stay in the head. your car uses a MAP sensor to help indicate airflow and thus engine load, so if your map isn't acting right your TCU will be reading a different engine load and shift the car. it doesnt necessary mean your hitting fuel cut but it simulates it sorta.

Also look at it this way, on your fuel system it should be a return system, so you have a vacuum line going to your FPR, it sees boost pressure too. Everywhere there is a vacuum line connected in your motor it WILL see positive pressure when your in boost. Think of your motor as a whole and not in components and you'll see what im talkin about. It took me forever to get that concept down. =) thanks again Tguy for teaching me the right way ;)

That is a real eye opener, never looked at it from that perspective. Is there any downside or upside to the additional pressure in the system. What can be done to eliminate or minimise any potential problem. get rid of some of the vacuum lines?

[Dzaster]

That is why I put a check valve in line of nearly every vacuum port--so things to get backed up or freaked out.

[akinat90]

That is why I put a check valve in line of nearly every vacuum port--so things to get backed up or freaked out.

You mentioned about my car having a map sensor. Wasn't aware of that, i know i use a MAF, could you enlighten me

[Accord2nrz]

My apologies I wasn't aware the civics used a maf sensor. if your 100% sure you use a maf then the ecu uses your MAF sensor to indicate engine load. however the pressure rule still applies. I would advise you to go ahead and put check valves in your lines, it couldn't hurt.

Basically what that does is it lets a limited amount of pressure through =)

If you're unsure as to if your using a map or maf, take a look at your throttle body. Near the inlet there will be a sensor on top of it with a 3 wire harness coming from it. A maf will be inline with your air filter, most likely on a piece of straight pipe.

One last note. If you are using a maf sensor and it is just after a bend in your charge piping, look into relocating it to a straight section. it will give you a more accurate reading for airflow. Turbineguy could explain in detail, but in lay terms the swirling air is disrupted just afterr a bend so in a straight line your getting a truer reading as to the flow rating.

[akinat90]

My apologies I wasn't aware the civics used a maf sensor. if your 100% sure you use a maf then the ecu uses your MAF sensor to indicate engine load. however the pressure rule still applies. I would advise you to go ahead and put check valves in your lines, it couldn't hurt.

Basically what that does is it lets a limited amount of pressure through =)

If you're unsure as to if your using a map or maf, take a look at your throttle body. Near the inlet there will be a sensor on top of it with a 3 wire harness coming from it. A maf will be inline with your air filter, most likely on a piece of straight pipe.

One last note. If you are using a maf sensor and it is just after a bend in your charge piping, look into relocating it to a straight section. it will give you a more accurate reading for airflow. Turbineguy could explain in detail, but in lay terms the swirling air is disrupted just afterr a bend so in a straight line your getting a truer reading as to the flow rating.

Sorry to disappoint, i know you would like another honda brother :), but i have a MAZDA, check my signature

[Accord2nrz]

LOl my bad, there's my dee dee dee moment =) Its not bad being a rariety around here.

[Dzaster]

LOl my bad, there's my dee dee dee moment =) Its not bad being a rariety around here.
lol! I was thinking maybe you knew a bit more than what was being said--despite what his sig said. :p

[akinat90]

I had asked previously somewhere in this thread about cam gears and turbocharged cars. Are they wise to install on a turbocharged car especially when you can alter your overlap. Can someone tell me the beifits/gain or disadvantage to using them.

[akinat90]

I am still waiting for someone to hit me with some input. but in the meantime............. my car is acting up, not idling properly, idling stinking rich, plugs were black and sooty, would sometimes stall. It drives smoother after about 2500 rpm but not making the power like before. while it is idling rough and rich if i pull off a plug wire and put it back and it would idle smooth again until i touch the gas pedal, then it starst up again. I changed the wires, coils, and plugs. same thing. its as though the car is dumping fuel in the chamber and i say that because my gas mileage cut by half. i did a data log and i noticed a spike in my injector duty cycle to 95% at 600 rpm(about idle) with 0% throttle position. Could this be a sign that my EMB is on the blink. Any suggestion are appreciated

[maxgtr2000]

If the car is dumping fuel check your emanage maps, do you have anti-stall activated? That will dump fuel if not set properly. The other thing is an injector o-ring might have gone bad and is dumping fuel.

[Dzaster]

I had asked previously somewhere in this thread about cam gears and turbocharged cars. Are they wise to install on a turbocharged car especially when you can alter your overlap. Can someone tell me the beifits/gain or disadvantage to using them.
I haven't used any performance cams, but I think its sage to say an aftermarket cam would be of benefit.

As for the other issues, no check engine lights?

[akinat90]

Double checked the maps, no change there and i am not using the anti stall since i didnt have a stalling issue. The car was working perfectly (well almost) before didnt change anything. As for the o-rings, i changed injectors all together, plus would the o-ring dump fuel into the combustion chamber and make me run rich as hell? the car isnt responsive either as though i am not gettin a proper burn. Could the MAF be the problem?

If the car is dumping fuel check your emanage maps, do you have anti-stall activated? That will dump fuel if not set properly. The other thing is an injector o-ring might have gone bad and is dumping fuel.

[akinat90]

I haven't used any performance cams, but I think its sage to say an aftermarket cam would be of benefit.

As for the other issues, no check engine lights?

no CEL. i thought perhaps an injector was stuck open, since my gas mileage is almost half what it use to be. plus i was still intermittently getting that combustion/backfire sound when i turn the ignition on as though there was gas igniting before i start the car. it would blow off the pcv hose

[Dzaster]

no CEL. i thought perhaps an injector was stuck open, since my gas mileage is almost half what it use to be. plus i was still intermittently getting that combustion/backfire sound when i turn the ignition on as though there was gas igniting before i start the car. it would blow off the pcv hose
Its prolly in here somewhere but at what RPM range is all this happening--closed loop? Might it be a faulty O2 sensor?

[akinat90]

Its prolly in here somewhere but at what RPM range is all this happening--closed loop? Might it be a faulty O2 sensor?
Mostly at idle or under 2000RPM

[messiahx]

Did you get the injectors cleaned/flowed before installing them? Your guess of an open injector could be right.

Have you datalogged any runs to see what your duty cycles are like throughout the rev range? Do they look normal at all? A bad o-ring would likely show itself with a fuel leak or vacuum leake. It wouldn't cause extra fuel to go in.

The other thing to check is your wiring -- check the o2 sensor wire and make sure you didn't accidentally short or open it.

As far as cams...aftermarket cams can be of benefit, certainly will be with a turbo. Also you should look into adjustable cam gears, (er, I see you have these already) with some dyno time, you can make 10hp+ adjusting each cam a few degress -- and this is N/A. I assume you're running a BP 1.8? If so, you can also check out the "exhintake" cam swap -- basically get another stock exhaust cam and chop of the CAS/Distributor flange and replace the intake came with it. I did this on my engine back when I was N/A and it made a very noticeable difference in higher RPMs. My car dynoed 116whp at 105,000 miles and a stock exhaust, which is about 10hp better than most stock engines in 1.8 Miatas.

[akinat90]

Did you get the injectors cleaned/flowed before installing them? Your guess of an open injector could be right.

Have you datalogged any runs to see what your duty cycles are like throughout the rev range? Do they look normal at all? A bad o-ring would likely show itself with a fuel leak or vacuum leake. It wouldn't cause extra fuel to go in.

The other thing to check is your wiring -- check the o2 sensor wire and make sure you didn't accidentally short or open it.

As far as cams...aftermarket cams can be of benefit, certainly will be with a turbo. Also you should look into adjustable cam gears, (er, I see you have these already) with some dyno time, you can make 10hp+ adjusting each cam a few degress -- and this is N/A. I assume you're running a BP 1.8? If so, you can also check out the "exhintake" cam swap -- basically get another stock exhaust cam and chop of the CAS/Distributor flange and replace the intake came with it. I did this on my engine back when I was N/A and it made a very noticeable difference in higher RPMs. My car dynoed 116whp at 105,000 miles and a stock exhaust, which is about 10hp better than most stock engines in 1.8 Miatas.

did a data log at idle and revving (i know not, the best thing) but i noticed a injector duty cycle spike of 85% duty cycle at idle 600RPM and 0% throttle position.
Will check the O2 sensor wire, btw would a malfunctioning O2 sensor cause that prob?
On the engine issue i am actually running a 2003 mazdaspeed protege fs-det motor, check my signature.

thanks for the info

[Dzaster]

A bad O2 can send a bad signal to the ECU and usually the ECU will richen things up for safety sake.

[akinat90]

Just an update. I unplugged the air fow sensor and the car idled a little better without it. But what I did was to take out the ecu and disconnect airflow sensor wire i.e bypass the emb maf input and started the car, guess what, it idled and drove with no problem. so I reconnected it again and that seem to fix the prob. I am wondering if there is some kind of reset or recalibration that needed to be done.
The problem seem to have been to do with the signal that was coming out of the ECU after the MAF signal left the EMB since I was getting a correct voltage reading in and out of the EMB. I will monitor it tomorrow and update you guys, right now i am dead tired.

[Dzaster]

Interesting. Please to keep us up to date.

[akinat90]

Just another update. No more problems since.
Since i dont know how to determine which injector might have been leaking if at all it was, i had to swap back in my original 1.8L injectors which are 235cc down from the 285cc in the 2.0L. i am wondering if i am running way lean and getting some gas starvation since i am getting some misfiring and some hesitation and stalling when i try to accelerate under load. I also notice that the engine temp is a little hotter than usual, the car is nowhere near as responsive as it was before and my gas mileage has increased by about 25%. Unfortunately i havent installed a A/F guage yet, soon though, was looking at this http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/blue-digital-air-fuel-ratio-gauge.aspx
Messiahx had mentioned in another thread that 240cc injectors pretty much max out at about 5-7 psi and i am running 10psi in my 2.0L with my (tempory) 235cc. Can i effectively increase fuel in my injection map without further maxxing them out?
Next question, how do you determine when you go into open loop and how effectively does the EMB function in closed loop if you are adding fuel in your maps and the O2 sensor recalibrates to give you Stoich. How do you, or can you trick your ECU into open loop.
I have been reading some posts in mazdas247 on this subject and it has me wondering about my overall management.
Any input on these issues would be greatly appreciated.
BEAR IN MIND THAT MY ECU IS A NORMALLY ASPIRATED 1.8L

[Dzaster]

Oh wow, 10psi in a 2.0L motor and only 235cc injectors. Even the little Toyota Tercel cousin, the Starlet (4efte) 1.3L motor, uses 295cc injectors.

Do you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator that you can at least turn fuel pressure up to help those injectors put out a little more fuel. YOu can try cranking that up a few psi.

Just seems like you should at least try to get back to those 285's.

[messiahx]

Unless you're running 100psi+ of fuel pressure, don't drive the car! It may be able to pull off cruising and light accel, but not boost. Get that wideband in right away. You are definitely pinging the hell out of that engine and it won't last too long if you keep doing it.

For another reference, my 330s were maxed at 5 psi at 55psi of fuel pressure (about 10psi more FP that stock, my fuel pump was weak, the new one holds 100psi) on my 1.8 miata. Duty cycles were 85% with an 11:1 afr.

You can increase the duty cycle, but its all a moot point if you don't have a wideband. Do a quick datalog and log the injector duty cycles. If you're above 85%, you've reached maximum. Any higher than that for an extended period of time (like a 0-100 pull) can start causing them to overheat, nevermind the damage you are doing when it goes lean in boost.

[akinat90]

I LOST IT AGAIN. was checking my real time display and the only thing that is reading is my MAF in and out. No RPM no injection info and i didnt change anything it just went. Read a post by a guy who installed it on a subaru, ( http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/subachad/mods/emanage2.htm ) where the writer says " Once it was installed, I started the car and everything seem to run fine so I then installed the injector harness. Realize that unless you turn on the feature with the laptop, the timing and injector harness will be bypassed. This means if you have the injector harness hooked up wrong, you will not get an error until you turn on the feature and upload it to the Emanage." Is there some feature that "turns on" my readings? I checked the wiring, still all good, if it wasn't, the car wouldn't start. could the EMB be on the blink. need help fast.

[maxgtr2000]

Emanage blue has been out for awhile, I got a used vafc once hooked it up, started getting the maf code, car ran like garbage. Disconnected the car ran fine. I was out $120. From that day forward I vowed never to get used electronic engine management equipment. If you got it used it could have issues, the only other thing is to double check all electrical connections, maybe even open up the unit and see if the connectors are all firmly soldered to the pcb board. There is a data display setup I think where the boxes have to be checked on what you want to monitor, check that. Other than that i would say it is on the fritz. Also tuning without a wideband is like talking a walk in a dark forest at midnight. Get a wideband then start making adjustments. A 25% mpg increase is a sign that it is running lean. That's fine for off boost but not the transitioning and in boost.

[akinat90]

Emanage blue has been out for awhile, I got a used vafc once hooked it up, started getting the maf code, car ran like garbage. Disconnected the car ran fine. I was out $120. From that day forward I vowed never to get used electronic engine management equipment. If you got it used it could have issues, the only other thing is to double check all electrical connections, maybe even open up the unit and see if the connectors are all firmly soldered to the pcb board. There is a data display setup I think where the boxes have to be checked on what you want to monitor, check that. Other than that i would say it is on the fritz. Also tuning without a wideband is like talking a walk in a dark forest at midnight. Get a wideband then start making adjustments. A 25% mpg increase is a sign that it is running lean. That's fine for off boost but not the transitioning and in boost.

I bought the EMB new, i dont know how old it was before i got it though. I did double check the connection as i said and they are all good and soldered. Cant hurt to triple check. The car is running if i had a bad connection i dont think it would run especially since i am not getting a injector reading and i would have had to splice the injectors to connect them. All my displays are checked and i am seeing them just not getting any readiing from my RPM, nor injectors and they were working before. I cant even map trace i guess since i am not getting the RPM signal.

[messiahx]

The settings the Subaru guy is talking about is the screen where you have all the check boxes at the bottom...Main Unit Parameter Setting or something or other. You'll know it when you see. Since you're losing the RPM signal, though, I doubt the settings are the problem. Good luck, hope you figure it out soon. It sucks to have everything together and you can't drive it...

[akinat90]

The settings the Subaru guy is talking about is the screen where you have all the check boxes at the bottom...Main Unit Parameter Setting or something or other. You'll know it when you see. Since you're losing the RPM signal, though, I doubt the settings are the problem. Good luck, hope you figure it out soon. It sucks to have everything together and you can't drive it...

Thats the thing, the car is driving, its just not doing any adjustment, its as though everything just goes straight through the EMB bypassing the adjustment circuitry

[Dzaster]

Not sure if you you've done this but I think this is what some are referring to.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/RPMLogging.png

[akinat90]

Not sure if you you've done this but I think this is what some are referring to.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc340/dzaster96799/Tuning/RPMLogging.png

I have done all that, all boxes are checked still nothing, I will post a screen capture tonight when i get home so you can see exactly what i mean, but thanks.

[Dzaster]

Get a capture of your Parameter settings as well.

[akinat90]

Get a capture of your Parameter settings as well.

page as requested along with one when it was working
3130

btw, how do you get a large picture in the post instead of the attachment

[Dzaster]

And from the time you had RPM to the time you lost it(now) you did nothing with wiring with the emanage? Seems odd that it would just stop recording RPM.

[maxgtr2000]

If you open up a file it will revert back to settings you didn't have before.

[akinat90]

before this issue arose again i was getting some issues as i outlined in post #56 . What i did then to resolved the issue, quite by accident i must add, was to physically disconnect the maf signal in to the emb and reconnect it to the ecu directly (bypass the emb) and then started the car, voila!! problem was solved.(post #66). What i am wondering is if i need to do the same thing with the injectors, as in bypass the emb and reconnect the injectors directly and start the car and let the ecu reset without the emb. Anything is possible and i don't have anything to lose. will try that tonight. Has anybody ever had to do a similar thing?

[Dzaster]

I've not had anything remotely close to that, but its worth a try. Seems like you could really benefit from an extention harness so if you had a problem with the EMB you could just disconnect the extension and connect engine/harness straight to ECU.

[messiahx]

If that solves anything, I'd be very suprised. Disconnecting the battery would be a true reset. I wonder if the EMB is just not going to play nice. I was once at a local tuning shop where the owner said they couldn't get the EMB working well with a newer Toyota Celica.

Do you think it could be something like the ECU pinout you have has something wrong on it? Also have you considered a pnp harness from http://boomslang.us?

I hope you get this figured out soon...I'd love to see some vids of your car.

[akinat90]

Another update. guess what people. Did what i said i would, bypass EMB, start car, reconnect EMB and voila all working again. Getting all my readings again, go figure. So you doubters (messiahx)........ just kidding messiahx. DOnt have a clue why that worked both times maybe it becauses a JDM ecu i dont know but it worked.

[Accord2nrz]

interesting resolve isn't it? that's good that it's working as it should now.

[akinat90]

Could someone explain to me the difference between the airflow meter input/output voltage and the A/F sensor(0-5V) in the real time display. My A/F sensor voltage was 5 volts but now it is reading less than 1 volt constantly. My airflow meter seems to be working fine though. can someone enlighten me

[Dzaster]

I really don't pay much attention to the airflow in/out, but I believe its purpose is to tell you what the actual map/maf sensor is reading("airflow in").Then if you have values/adjustments in the Airflow map it should show how it adjusted the map/maf signal(voltage) as it fed the signal to the ECU.

If you had 5V all the time that really was not a good thing as that is maxing out the map/maf sensor's ability to relay the proper info to the ECU. Do you have the "Boost Limiter Cut" map enabled and clamping your airflow meter/sensor.

Perhaps that's the reason why your ECU is flipping out when it gets railed by boost.

[akinat90]

I really don't pay much attention to the airflow in/out, but I believe its purpose is to tell you what the actual map/maf sensor is reading("airflow in").Then if you have values/adjustments in the Airflow map it should show how it adjusted the map/maf signal(voltage) as it fed the signal to the ECU.

If you had 5V all the time that really was not a good thing as that is maxing out the map/maf sensor's ability to relay the proper info to the ECU. Do you have the "Boost Limiter Cut" map enabled and clamping your airflow meter/sensor.

Perhaps that's the reason why your ECU is flipping out when it gets railed by boost.

The one i was referring to wasn't the airflow volt in and out which i have clamped, but one of the options in the realtime display, this one.32

[Dzaster]

Oh, that is for if you were routing a Wideband O2 signal through the EMB. That one you would be using what is originally for the Greddy MAP sensor to log you WBO2 AFR via the EMB.

In Parameter Settings you have this enabled. You can go and change it to disconnect in that drop down box, although I'm not sure what all it'll do.

[akinat90]

I think i asked this question before but i didnt get a response. How do you know/determine when you go into open loop?

[maxgtr2000]

It can be above anywhere from 30%-70% throttle depending on the vehicle. If you have a wideband, your afrs will usually quickly go rich as you reach a certain throttle position. The car ignores certain sensors and runs off a fuel map. That's why in open loop most cars stock are overly rich just to keep the engine safe. In closed loop the ecu looks and adjusts fuel from the feedback of the o2 sensors to keep the car at about 14.7 afr.

[akinat90]

It can be above anywhere from 30%-70% throttle depending on the vehicle. If you have a wideband, your afrs will usually quickly go rich as you reach a certain throttle position. The car ignores certain sensors and runs off a fuel map. That's why in open loop most cars stock are overly rich just to keep the engine safe. In closed loop the ecu looks and adjusts fuel from the feedback of the o2 sensors to keep the car at about 14.7 afr.

lately i have been getting a lot of "flat spots"/hesitation around that throttle position under 3500 RPM. more than i was getting before. would try to accelerate normal and the car would just hesitate to the point where it sounds like the engine stalls, then picks up again, and always around the same parameters around 30% throttle under 3500RPM. Adding to that sometimes i would get a slight up and down of the RPM at a constant throttle position. ALL THIS ONLY HAPPENS BELOW 3500RPM/30-35% THROTTLE POSITION
Are they any tips that can maybe smooth out the transition from closed to open loop or is there anything i can do to alleviate the issue i am having now.

Another question is it possible or practical to have your car operate in open loop all the time and control fuel with your maps?

[CG10DET]

Ideally on your re-mapped settings you want the car to remain in constant open loop IF POSSIBLE, otherwise the ECU will be making "corrections" to your adjustments while in closed loop mode.

[akinat90]

Ideally on your re-mapped settings you want the car to remain in constant open loop IF POSSIBLE, otherwise the ECU will be making "corrections" to your adjustments while in closed loop mode.

That is y I asked the question I asked

[CG10DET]

Sorry, I missed that last bit, is your car OBD1 or OBD2?

Does your stock ECU use a narrowband lambda? And how many lambda's do you have?

If it's OBD1, and only has 1 lambda, you can remove the narrowband signal from your wideband, or disconnect your narrowband. Usually with OBD1 it won't give any warning lights, and without the signal it will force the ECU into Open Loop.

[Dzaster]

Akinat, it may be your stock map freaking out. You'll need to have that clamped in the Boost Limiter Cut setting map. But then that is tough because you currently don't have a map that can read boost.

[akinat90]

Sorry, I missed that last bit, is your car OBD1 or OBD2?

Does your stock ECU use a narrowband lambda? And how many lambda's do you have?

If it's OBD1, and only has 1 lambda, you can remove the narrowband signal from your wideband, or disconnect your narrowband. Usually with OBD1 it won't give any warning lights, and without the signal it will force the ECU into Open Loop.

I am not sure if its OBD1 or 2. but my car uses 1, 4wire O2 sensor (I presume then its OBD1). I have never seen any warning light maybe because its from JDM (japanes Domestic Market). so i can try disconnecting it and see what happens

[CG10DET]

try disconnecting your lambda and see if your flatspots are still there, you may be able to iron them out through mapping your e-manage then.

[akinat90]

Akinat, it may be your stock map freaking out. You'll need to have that clamped in the Boost Limiter Cut setting map. But then that is tough because you currently don't have a map that can read boost.

I am currently tuning using only my MAF signal; no map sensor. So far I have the voltage clamped all the way down to 3.5 in that region. i will try what CG10DET suggested i.e disconnecting the O2 sensor and see what happens.
One other question does the car usually go rich or lean when transitioning from closed to open loop?

[Dzaster]

It goes rich when entering open loop.

[CG10DET]

Usually it will go rich as a safey feature, are you using a wideband lambda?

[Dzaster]

If you are looking to tune yourself, you can't do it effectively/safely without a wideband and Greddy MAP sensor. Get those an you'll be way better off.

[akinat90]

If you are looking to tune yourself, you can't do it effectively/safely without a wideband and Greddy MAP sensor. Get those an you'll be way better off.

will invest in those shorly especially the MAP sensor. Right now I am having a financial defiency in the pocket department LOL. One more question, in the drop down menu in the additional injection map where you can change from throttle position, MAF voltage etc, does it tune differntly depending on which you choose? It seem as though just the values change on that axis. will the EMB tune based on which you choose

[CG10DET]

the EMB won't tune on it's own, you need to make the adjustments. It's your choice what you want to tune it by, MAF voltage is better than throttle position, as it's then mapping by the load.

You can't really map at all with a narrowband sensor as you can never know your fuel mixture.

[maxgtr2000]

the EMB won't tune on it's own, you need to make the adjustments. It's your choice what you want to tune it by, MAF voltage is better than throttle position, as it's then mapping by the load.

You can't really map at all with a narrowband sensor as you can never know your fuel mixture.
:confused:Yeah I really can't understand trying to tune a vehicle yourself without a wideband. Its like taking a walk in a thick forest at night hoping you're going in the right direction.